Interviewer: Victoria Cooper

Q: What was the initial impetus for Bay Area Linkup?

A: The initial impetus for Bay Area Linkup derived from a combination of disgust with the unreality and frequent misbehavior of the online world and the worried perception that far too many people were spending far too much time in an unhealthy way on their computers.

One of the names I seriously considered along the way was "getawayfromyourcomputer.com." There is simply no substitute for interaction in person, in real time, with another alive and awake human being. I wanted to offer an easy, natural way for people to meet in person and for people to create new possibilities in their lives through such meetings.

I was also aware that many singles services and dating sites were a terrible frustration for many people, and often lacked dignity, but that many people had no convenient, effective alternative.

In addition, I had a growing awareness of the moral problem and serious negative implications of a lack of accountability, at every level of the culture. I wanted to do what I could to fix that.

Q: What consumer needs did you identify?

A: If you mean using traditional marketing research, then absolutely none. But I did work hard to notice what appeared not to be working in the lives of many people. For example, part of what drove me was repeatedly hearing the complaint from friends, while in a crowded restaurant or other crowded setting, "It's so hard to meet people." But we're surrounded by people. In fact, the world is smothered in people, drowning in people. Then why, exactly why, is it hard to meet them? What exactly are the barriers? Exactly how are those barriers structured? And exactly how can those barriers be removed?

Because part of my training at Berkeley was in the sociological analysis of public spaces, I thought for a long time about all the different ways throughout history that people have been able to meet easily in public spaces--the town square, the promenade, the bazaar, the agora, the town dance hall, barn raisings and square dances--and how many of those ways for people to meet have disappeared, and been replaced by isolated condos and mcmansions, the creepy bar scene, and people staring at computer screens typing to other people staring at computer screens typing, all using phony names. What a sickness that is.

It seemed to me that many of the old fashioned ways of meeting in person were much healthier, offered much more variety, and were much more humane. So I wanted to provide a way for people to easily and conveniently meet many different kinds of people, people they might otherwise never have contact with, see those people regularly while also meeting new people, and generally creating an environment in which many new possibilities of all different kinds could easily emerge in people's lives.

As the group evolved I was also very much part of the group myself, so I was able to listen very closely to exactly what people wanted, and what issues they wanted solved. Nearly all the features on the site were a direct response to requests from members, based on immediate experience of the members, not abstract focus groups or engineering geekery and technology worship.

Q: What needs of your own did you want to explore?

A: I needed to not be subject to the hideous b.s. that abounds in the environment of most companies. I needed to do something I believe in, and I needed to prove that the unquestioned assumptions behind many of the "truths" in business were not just completely wrong, but wrong precisely because they were emotionally and spiritually shallow.

For example, everyone told me a revenue model based solely on membership dues would never work, but it's worked beautifully, based on the commitment of the members. Everyone told me I had to develop relationships with venues, but Bay Area Linkup has staked its reputation on not forming relationships with venues, but instead concentrating exclusively on a relationship with its members.

Finally, everyone told me I needed an "exit strategy." Yes, exit strategy is a big preoccupation for people these days. Every time someone would tell me I needed an exit strategy, I would ask them if they were married. So you're married? What's your exit strategy? Commitment is commitment, and commitment itself has irreplaceable advantages.

Q: What is your background, Firinn? How do you think your previous experience has enabled what you're doing now?

A: One truly powerful influence on me was a single sentence from Esther Dyson: "An alternative definition of wealth is how many unique experiences you have had." I now live by that idea. A particular influence on me in business terms was an ongoing revulsion at products in search of a market, instead of a solution being developed in response to a need worthy of respect. I was also sick of hearing tech geeks talk about utterly useless, unhealthy gadgetry as though it were an object of worship. If there is a sexual charge inherent in technology itself, I have yet to find it.

Still, the most important aspect of my background is that I never truly fit into anything, anywhere, ever. I always see the world quite differently than everyone else, no matter where I am. Most people readily accept the answers that are already familiar to them. I only see more and better questions. The questions never stop. How could they?

This means that I see easily what many people never even notice, and I ask questions that many people don't even know exist. It's crucial to always ask "What if...", and then not listen to what anyone else says, except as it provides clues to what has never occurred to them, or to you.

Q: What is your vision for the kind of change that you hope Linkup can effect in people's lives? In other words, what are you trying to change or affect?

A: My primary goal at the moment is to maintain public proof of the practical advantages, for everyone, of being truly considerate of other people. That's the entire basis of the Linkup system, and even the basis of the patent we've applied for.

I'd also like to provide a way for people to travel around the world with total social confidence, knowing that truly reliable and considerate people await them in every community Linkup serves. Wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to fly to New York or Seattle or DC or London knowing that you could immediately begin socializing with people you can really count on? I think so.

Q: You've said that you wanted to use technology not to further isolate people but to bring them together. How did this goal influence the way you made the site workits functionality?

A: The only purpose of the web site is to get people together in person. If we could do this better without a web site, we'd dump the web site.

We wanted people to spend less time on their computers, so we deliberately restricted the profiles both in what they contain, and in the maximum size of the entries. The profiles are designed to provide only enough information to get you interested and perhaps slightly frustrated, so that you want to meet the person, instead of sitting at your damn computer.

One of the funniest things I often hear is "How do I view a complete profile?"

You're viewing it already. You just haven't met the person yet.

I also wanted to honor each person on the site by presenting the image they upload to their profile by itself, on its own page, in a dignified setting. I realized that doing this would also have the effect of encouraging people to be more thoughtful about the image they choose to upload; you only get one image, and it's going to be presented by itself, so you want to give more thought to exactly that one image to represent you, all by itself. That's good for everybody—those who upload pictures, and those who view them.

As the web site developed further, it became a conscious goal to turn the experience of the web site into a system in which social karma became directly visible. That's what the reliability ratings represent: how considerate you are of others, i.e. your social karma. It's rare to be able to view your social karma in strict quantitative terms, but that's exactly what Linkup provides. Some people are shocked by what they see in the Linkup mirror, but that mirror does present an accurate reflection.

Q: Please describe the particular features of the site that you're especially pleased withthe features that perhaps customers have reinforced as being efficient, effective or valuable to them.

A: What I'm most proud of is that we chose to concentrate exclusively on creating features that serve clear human needs. For instance, the "buddy system" we developed is provides a way of helping the new people in the group feel immediately comfortable, and get started both as a guest and as a host. The combination of filtering by event type and filtering by local geography, the event management tools, and the new feature that allows hosts to choose a reliability threshold for their events also derive directly from social needs. I'm also proud of our clear, crisp user interface that is immediately understandable and easy to use, but more powerful than other systems.

Q: How do you think the service and site are different from dating services or other matchup services like Craigslist, Match.com and Linkedin? I realize these are for jobs and dating and other activities beyond your focus, but what is fundamentally unique about both your site's purpose and its functionality?

A: The entire approach of Linkup is based on personal accountability, combined with complete privacy of personal information.

One unique aspect of Linkup is our absolute insistence on a personal screening by phone for every person who applies. We also have methods of pre-testing reliability even before the phone screening, but that edges toward some of our trade secrets, so I won't speak further.

Our system of direct representation of reliability is also unique. Some people don't like it, but the people who don't like it are also the people we want to spend as much time as possible on Craigslist and Yahoo! groups, and not with us.

The inherent structure and approach of many other sites encourages anonymity, which encourages a lack of accountability, which encourages bad behavior. Craigslist is great for job postings, and it's great if you want to sell a vacuum cleaner or have some nasty sex with a stranger, but Craigslist is terrible in the areas of social continuity and social reliability. There are also heaps of bad writing on Craigslist.

Our approach is just the opposite. We actively screen people, do not allow anonymous activity of any kind, disallow the use of screen names, and permanently ban anyone who treats other people badly. A delicious apparent contradiction we discovered is that the more people we kicked out, the faster the group grew.

It turns out that Linkup is also much more effective as a singles service than most singles services, even though it's not a singles service. After all, isn't it much more fun to be doing something you would want to do anyway, and then meet someone who is also there because they like the same thing? It sure beats those dreadful one to one meetings full of self-conscious tension, or the singles meat market events.

Q: What learnings in general from internet technology have you applied to Linkup? i.e. simplicity, low click-through, etc.

A: Technology does not equal good information. Technology does not equal knowledge. Technology does not equal wisdom.

We don't need more information. We need less information, but more significant information. Less information but more imagination would also help.

Graphics may be pretty, but they don't mean anything in themselves, and they bog your site down. Words structure our minds in a deeper way than computer graphics ever could. Discover those three words that have a deeper effect than any graphic, and you may only have to transfer 16 bytes over the net, instead of 20 thousand, or fifty thousand. We want speed, with meaning.

Every click loses you 50% of your visitors. Live in fear of the extra click.

I despise technology chauvinism, and there are by this point so many different technologies that could have been used to construct all of the functionality of the site. Choice of technology is irrelevant, except as a practical matter.

I chose PHP/MySQL because the combination of these two technologies is easy, powerful, fast, flexible and free. I make bare bones use of CSS, just for convenience in maintenance. I also use some JavaScript, but only for UI refinements such as positioning the cursor where the user expects it, providing immediate feedback on the number of characters remaining within the strict limits on character entry in the profiles, and fast form validation.

Q: Since you launched the web site, what have you been surprised by?

A: How much it's grown, and how many people have made me blush when they actually say the words "It changed my life." I've also been wonderfully surprised by all of the great ideas members have contributed, as well as the amazing variety of events. No events planning organization that operates in a centralized way could ever, ever have created such a variety of events.

Q: What sorts of problems have cropped up?

A: Lots of nutty, unexpected people stuff. There's that saying in business "The soft stuff is the hard stuff." That's certainly been true. We've also had some growing pains, but better that than shrinking pains.

Q: What sorts of pleasant surprises?

I've met and become friends with some truly great people. The hosts have also been incredibly smart about using the event management tools. I build a new feature, post it to the site, and the hosts start using it immediately and seamlessly, with no explanation from us, and no questions for us.

It's also been very gratifying that so many people have told me they love the web site, and the web site still has no graphics.

Q: Is Linkup designed to reach just one market or all geodemographic markets?

A: Each Linkup site is designed to function fundamentally within its own geographic locale, for people to meet in person. Each site is intended to operate like a small town, with overlapping personal and professional relationships, and strong social continuity.

The larger plan is to then link these strongly local sites together so that members can, for instance, relocate to a new city with an unprecedented degree of ease and comfort, or use the sites for a new experience of travel; when you can create your own events in advance of travel to a different city and immediately meet not only people local to that area but local people who have been attracted by your specific event, travel becomes more a matter of moving through the world on a path of friendship and common interests, regardless of where you are.

Q: Are more of your users newcomers to locales, for instance?

A: My estimate based on all the phone interviews is that 20-25% of the people who apply are either new to the Bay Area or have been here a little while and are looking for ways to plug into the area socially in a more substantial way, as well as simply orient themselves to the range of activities in the Bay Area. However, a very large percentage of people on the site have lived in the Bay Area a long time, and feel the urge to jump out of their habitual channels of both activities and socializing.

Q: I've noticed some activities are segmented by age. Do you see more of this happening as the service matures?

A: I sure hope not. My personal opinion is that age segregation only impoverishes all of us, socially, emotionally and intellectually. That's one of the reasons I refuse to even provide a field for age in the profiles.

I also personally dislike the gender segregation that some people add to events. My own view is that adding gender segregation to your event is like placing a sign on your forehead that reads "unevolved."

My hope is that people will gradually realize that if you write an event carefully enough and thoughtfully enough, you'll attract the people you want to attract, regardless of the usual slice and dice demographics that are derived from marketing analysis, and are now so often inappropriately applied to personal relationships.

I actually wish members would stop posting "singles" events. Don't we all understand by now that singles events truly stink? My preference would be to remove the singles category entirely, but I'd had have a minor mutiny on my hands if I tried. So many people have reported that simply meeting people based on common interests is much more effective, as well as more humane, than any singles service. I wish people would just give up on this darn "singles" stuff. Why not just meet a bunch of people you'll probably like because they like the same stuff you do? It's quite likely you'll also quickly find someone you like in other ways, too.

Q: What is the fee for using your site? How well has that been accepted when you made the turnover from a free service to a fee for service?

A: Membership is $4.95 per month, which members can turn on and off at will depending their circumstances. During the conversion from the initial free version of Bay Area Linkup to the membership system there was a brief burst of squawking, but things have settled down completely, and everyone seems to like the total absence of advertising the membersip system has allowed.

Q: What about advertising on the site? Do you envision that happening any time soon? Or do you think it will be strictly supported by subscriber fees?

A: We are absolutely and permanently opposed to including advertising of any kind anywhere within the Linkup system. We believe the advertising model is a form of pimping, and we're not into being pimps.

We are also absolutely and permanently opposed to any sort of traditional "business development" in which relationships with venues, vendors, services or organizations are cultivated, often to the detriment of the primary relationship with members. Those additional relationships with venues, vendors, organizations or services would just cloud our loyalty, which would interfere with our primary purpose, and misdirect our attention.

We are strictly and permanently monogamous. We have one relationship, and one relationship only: with the membership.